Recent events have prompted individuals, companies, and organizations across the world to take a deeper look at their role in society and explore how they can play an active part in driving the change they want to see. Museums and cultural organizations, with their mission-based work and commitment to community, have an especially important role to play in this current moment. To step up and effect change in areas of social justice, cultural professionals are turning to their colleagues within the field, as well as seeking inspiration and guidance from other industries to generate fresh ideas and develop meaningful new approaches.
This webinar will take the form of a museum “Think Tank” where innovative voices from the museum field converge with social impact entrepreneurs who are addressing some of society’s most challenging issues. Join Brendan Ciecko (CEO & Founder @ Cuseum), Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwell (Head of Public Programs @ Smithsonian American Art Museum & Renwick Gallery), OnRae Watkins (Senior Manager @ ARTLAB - Hirshhorn Museum & Gardens) David Delmar Sentíes (Executive Director & Founder @ Resilient Coders), and Jon Feinman (Executive Director & Founder @ InnerCity Weightlifting) as they explore how museums can serve as incubators for social impact and social justice.
View the video recording here.
Read the full transcript below.
Brendan Ciecko:
Hello everyone. My name is Brendan Ciecko and I'm the founder of Cuseum. First off, I want to say thank you to everyone who is joining us today, as well as say thank you to today's guest speakers. I hope that you're all staying safe and healthy. And if you are joining us for the first time, welcome. And for those of you who have tuned in to any of our past conversations, welcome back it's always great to see you.
Welcome to our second live think tank brainstorming session with voices from both inside the museum and cultural field as well as outside. We'll be discussing how museums and institutions can be incubators for social change. And I firmly believe in the power and importance of bringing together different minds and different mindsets to discuss challenges from various angles, and truly hope you'll enjoy the perspectives that we've brought together today. The role that museums and institutions could play might play in the area of social justice is an area where I think it's vital to bring these different perspectives to the table. Our sector has the great fortune of having people two of whom you'll hear from today who are dedicated to social justice and uplifting communities through the work they do as individuals, but also the work they do within their museums.
And in my own life, my eyes have been opened through crossing paths with pioneers of social enterprise like Bernie Glassman, and members of social venture network, and two social impact founders who you'll hear from today, who have challenged my own assumptions about social impact and the ways in which completely new models can be used to solve some of society's most challenging problems and to address systemic injustice. There are people who like to talk about change, we know this, and then there are people who like to actually make that change. There are four people here today who are approaching social impact and social justice from completely different worlds and completely different sides and I'm excited to see what insights and ideas will spring by bringing all of us together for a conversation.
So today, we're here to discuss a few topics, issues and ideas in hopes of identifying new solutions, models and approaches and over 2000 of you have registered for today's conversation, and I hope it will provide some unexpected outcomes and spark new ideas for all of us. Today's topic is museums as incubators for social impact, and without any further ado, I'm excited to introduce our special guests.
Joining us we have Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwell. Kayleigh is a Washington DC native and cultural planner with over 10 years of museum and gallery experience at the intersections of social justice practice. As head of public programs with Smithsonian American Art Museum and the Renwick Gallery she is responsible for an extensive calendar of in person and digital programs across two museums, leading new outreach and anti racist initiatives towards developing new audiences and expanding public engagement. In the wake of COVID-19 she leads an internal task force towards reopening strategy. She has contributed to the museum as site for a site for social action and empathetic museum movements. She has presented and keynoted at numerous conferences, including the American Alliance of Museum, AAM, Museum Ideas UK and International Inclusive Museum, among others.
She's a participant in the Museum Leadership Institute's 2020 next gen program. She serves on the board of Washington Project for The Arts is it 2020 juror for the Halcyon Artist Fellowship and on the artist selection committee of the Halcyon Arts Lab and VisArts in Rockville, Maryland. She received her Bachelors of Arts in art history from the University of Maryland, College Park and masters of art in museum studies from George Washington University. Thanks so much for joining us, Kayleigh. Thank you. Thank you.
Joining us from DC we have OnRae Watkins. OnRae Watkins is an experienced educator specializing in out of school programming, and currently serves as senior manager of the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Gardens teen program department in digital art studio, which is called Art Lab. Approaching two years in this role, OnRae has raised over $300,000 in operating funds and tripled yearly attendance numbers in major milestone in her career at the Hirshhorn was The Salon, the first, the museum's first large scale public program dedicated to uplifting the cultural significance and aesthetic value of black hair. OnRae is a music producer and creative arts educator holding a BA from Howard University School of Communications and Audio Production. OnRae has produced content for national and international commercial broadcast stations. OnRae is the co-founder of the black girls hand games project, a grassroots program dedicated to using childhood games to uplift joy and resiliency for black girls through music and education.
Her most recent endeavor to merge Arts and Social Justice includes the Black Joy Experience, a compilation album of main, mainstream freedom songs and liberation chants OnRae produced in conjunction with the National Activist Organization, Black Youth Project 100. Thank you so much for joining us, OnRae. And big shout out on the fashion statement both of you guys are making right in the first moments of this, thank you. Love it, love it, love it.
And joining us from Boston we have David Delmar Sentíes: who is the Founder and Executive Director of Resilient Coders, a highly competitive free nonprofit coding boot camp that trains people of color for high growth careers as software engineers and connects them with full time jobs.
He's a workforce equity activist passionate about democratizing access to high growth careers that are automation resilient. David has been broadly recognized for his work and has received the mass tech leadership councils Distinguished leadership, Leader Award, Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce Top 10 Young Leaders Award and has been named one of the Top 100 Most Influential Latinos in Massachusetts by El Planeta as a workforce equity activists, David and Resilient Coders believed in social justice through economic empowerment. Thank you so much for joining us, David. Thank you and David is also an artist. I'm just going to throw that out there. I feel like a lot of you joining us today are artists outside of the hats you're wearing right now. So just want to give a shout out to that as well.
And lastly, joining us from Boston is Jon Feinman as Founder and Executive Director of Inner City Weightlifting, also known as ICW. Jon is focused on aligning the vision strategy, culture and growth of ICW to increase economic mobility and social inclusion for young people at the highest risk for violence, all while shifting perceptions so that the factors that lead to segregated pockets of violence fade away from change, fade away, changing the course for future generations.
Building upon his experience with AmeriCorps and as a personal trainer, Jon received his MBA from Babson College in 2010 where he launched ICW. He was named as one of the Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce 2014 of 10 Outstanding Young Leaders, 2012 social innovator by Social Innovation Forum and received the Ernst and Young 2015 Entrepreneur of the Year a New England Award for the social entrepreneurship category. Thanks so much for joining us, Jon. Thank you.
And, lastly, I'm Brendan Ciecko, I'm the founder of Cuseum I will be your host for today's conversation. First things first, this is a think tank. It's experimental. It's intentional that we're bringing together different worlds to dive into some of these topics. And we want to converge these, these, these various spaces together. And to start us off on the first portion or the first half of the conversation. Kayleigh could you introduce the first theme that we'll be jumping off with?
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
Certainly. Okay, so are statements being made in the movement against systemic injustices? How do you take responsible action beyond a statement and ensure that your actions align with your value mission?
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. And you've spotted workforce inequality and major diversity issues within the talent pipeline of a specific sector tech and decided to do something about it. You took action here. Can you talk about your journey from seeing a specific system was broken, the messaging, the statements around that was broken and decided to make a model that enabled you to uplift the communities that you work with while solving a problem within a specific sector.
Because I think what a lot of us are feeling right now is that statements are being made, but action doesn't always align with that. So how do you do that?
David Delmar Sentíes:
Amen. Well, I see a lot of people joining from all over the country and so I will start with a little bit of local context here. Boston is a city with the greatest income inequality in the Union. And so it's not a very hard problem to see at least in Boston. We are in a region right here where the household net worth a white family is $245,000, median household net worth for a black family, if those of you don't know is $8. It's not 80,000, it's not 8000, it's $8. For Dominicans it's zero dollars, zero because of debt that different groups of folks have.
And so it's a pretty glaring issue. It's hard to ignore. I mean, my entire world, it's around specifically economic empowerment, putting people into jobs. And once upon a time it was believed in workforce development that if you just give people the skills necessary to the impossible to ignore, they can go on and get that job, which I hope most of us know is absolutely madness. That's nonsense. There are all kinds of systemic barriers that precludes someone from joining the workforce in a way that is equitable. And so much of the work that we do at Resilient Coders is to have those skills and give folks that competitive advantage necessary to get those jobs. But a lot of it, maybe even most of it is about having honest conversations with prospective employers or with allies, and unpacking of the recruitment and employment practices that explicitly present hurdles to entire groups of folks.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. And I feel like there's so much synergy between the work that Resilient Coders is doing in some regard and the work that OnRae you're doing at the Hirshhorn. I mean, you and everyone at Art Lab are already doing incredible work in elevating and supporting underserved students in your community and providing them with mentorship, tools and resources to become the next generation of creative technologists, artists, makers. and given that Art Lab lives within a modern and contemporary art museum just to some of the aspects of Art Lab and the actions you've taken that you feel that could be replicated or shared across other institutions as a framework. So I also think there's that component and the economic component of preparing people for success in whatever field that it is.
OnRae Watkins:
Yeah. I think this is a great question. And what I'll say is when I was presented the question, I initially thought to myself, "Well, what can I talk about that is showing that we are moving towards taking the action to serve marginalized, oppressed communities." And if I were to sit here and try to make something up, I would be lying to you. Because I'm proud to say that we are already doing the work. And I have been doing the work on the individual basis, but also stepping into the Hirshhorn two years ago, moving our departments to make sure that we're doing it in a very amplified way.
And so at art, as you had mentioned, Brendan, we basically the whole point of our space is to be able to introduce the latest and greatest in cutting edge technology to communities who would not have access to that technology. And so in the districts, what you'll find is if you go into a good deal of our schools or DCPS schools, our public schools, you will find computers that do not work. You will find those computers that do not work. There's probably, I don't know, five for the 25 students in the classroom, so they don't have access to working computers, or working with technology. Some of the schools still have chalkboards.
So none of these smart board systems, no iPads and things of that nature. And so we have some kids that come into our space, our digital art studio, who can't even create an email, don't even know how to navigate through Google to send an email for an application if they wanted to apply for an internship program with us. And so if we think about all of those inequities really our biggest thing is being able to present our kids with the opportunity to use this technology whether it's photography software or equipment, film equipment, music production equipment, coding equipment, graphic design equipment, music production equipment. We give them access to it for free in our studio. But not only that, we also give them access to mentors and the experts to help them to gain proficiency and professional skills.
We like to use this phrase where, or at least I like to, we want our kids to come into our space and to transform them from consumers of this technology to actually producers of the technology. Most of the kids that come into our space are black and brown youth. And as you all know, which I think most of us will probably be speaking about, is the representation of black and brown people in STEAM career fields is extremely small. And so we're working our best to basically combat that deficiency by giving them the skills they need to be successful and to transfer into a career field that is STEM related.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that. And I honestly hope for a future where more museums are looking to models like Art Lab. Because I mean, STEM is one thing, STEAM is another and I mean, it's just a natural hosting environment to be able to do that in a way that is authentic and genuine to the museum's mission. So thank you for all that.
And Jon, I mean, looking at all of the different societal issues faced, I mean, one could argue that mass incarceration is one of the biggest social problems that the United States is facing today. And over the years, I've seen various programs, approaches from different angles. I've seen the Halley House in Boston take strides toward this from a culinary arts perspective. I've seen art for justice through funding artists, and I'm sure that there are many more programs. But given the severity of the problem and the severity of the statements and the actions that one would need to put forth to make a difference in that type of space. What have you learned that might be broadly applicable to anyone at an institution that is looking to develop programs that address social justice and social change?
Jon Feinman:
Well, first, say hello to Chris.
Brendan Ciecko:
Hi, Chris.
Jon Feinman:
One of our trainers at ICW who has taught me everything I know. And I think, to answer that question, also just speak as a white male, a white privileged male in this space. I don't have any clue what I'm doing. So I have to listen to Chris. I have to listen to people who have lived these lives. And as we think about how you get to that space? What can you do? What action can you take? It starts with listening to first understand the problem from the perspective of the people who have lived it. And then it comes down to forming those relationships. And so for us, when we first started doing this work, I actually thought somehow weight lifting and weight training was going to solve people's problems and we got bootstrap pop models off the ground 2010 and we started doing the work and we've got people who were shot and paralyzed. We've got people going in and out of jail, and unfortunately, people that get killed. And I did a week of training and somehow going to solve someone's problems is completely naive of me to think that.
What wasn't working was this excuse that I accidentally gave myself to send a text to someone whose society literally tells us to avoid. To say, "Hey, I'm working out three o'clock today, you want to join?" And it starts that simple. And as you start looking into the work and you start looking into the history, to me the big problem with mass incarceration goes back 400 years, and you have to look at this country's evolution, from slavery, to racial terror, to segregation, to the criminalization of people of color that now leads to this logic that feeds mass incarceration, that somehow this person is someone to be feared, and therefore, they're a criminal.
We don't look at people through a lens of humanity. We're looking at people through the lens of criminality, and we're getting it all wrong. And we're starting to solve through the perspective of the people who have always been in power versus listening to people who have lived it. So to answer your question, the way you go about it, you value people and when you value people you listen to people. And you listen to people, they become your biggest ambassador, they become your biggest supporter and they guide you, and everyone else in the right direction. But I don't think you can uncouple mass incarceration today from this country's founding 400 years ago and building on top of every inequity, just changing it to somehow fit the logic of the present circumstance.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that. And I think it goes to show that social justice work isn't just a checkbox, and I don't want to ever create this illusion for folks in any field, but especially the museum and cultural field that is just like a box, you can check in the same way diversity and inclusion and equity, and accessibility are a box that you can check.
So I know Kayleigh, you've been doing a lot of work in this area for quite some time and what are your thoughts on how institutions can ensure that their work in this area is genuine? It's well informed. It's welcoming and it's aligned with both their missions but obviously, the folks in the community that they want to serve and need to serve?
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
I think that I agree with all the points that have been brought up. And I think it's really important what Jon said about how we have a tendency to approach social problems from the position of a person in power when we're in museums, and that that's not the position that's going to have the greatest impact or start community dialogue or move the needle in any significant way. Thinking back through the museums that I've worked through the years that have been directly engaged in social justice work, I think it really comes back to the mission and the purpose of the museum, the driver of the museum, and I think this can be applied widely through the field is that I think one of the first steps is looking at, h, looking at what it is that we do in museums and saying, what is it that, and what is it that we need to do?
Museums that have reinterpreted the purpose of meeting places that hold truth, that keep, that keep truth, historical memory and historical truth, I think are already doing a lot of this work from my experience at the Davis Teacher School Center. That was about contending with the whiteness of the art canon at the National Museum of Women in The Arts. Again, that was about contending with misogamy in American, well in culture broadly. At African American History and Culture, again, we're talking about truth in American history, and contending with narratives that have downplayed some of the ugliness in our history that has led to where we are today.
And so I think that, for starters, museums have to reconceptualize why we're here, why we're taking up space to begin with, and how that is, how that fits within realms of starting to do some justice not immediately into social justice impact, I think is more what David and Jon's work is doing. I think museums are a ways away from the impact side of things. But starting the work is well within our, our means. And it looks, and it has to be, about rethinking why we're even here.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. So we're at a point where everyone has had an opportunity to put forth a little bit of their past experience, their current experience, the work that they do. Do any of you have any thoughts based on what you've heard from each other or things that you want to pull a little bit more from one of the guest speakers around this idea of taking responsible action beyond just a statement, what that looks like?
Jon Feinman:
I mean, and I think it's just repeating some of what we've all said is that I think a lot of people, certainly not everyone, but people looking to take action beyond statement might not be, as Bryan Stevenson says, proximate to the issues, and if you're not proximate to the problems, you gotta start by taking action to figure out how you're going to get more connected. And it can be that simple.
I mean, if you can give a million dollars to a movement to an organization doing work great if you're looking to get personally involved you've got to find ways to connect with people who are on the ground, who have lived it, who have experienced it, and this is their lives. and from there, I think that then becomes clear.
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
Jon, I think that's so important. And I wanted to shout out two examples of not my work but of other museums. The Eastern State Penitentiary has over the years totally reconceptualized what their museum's purpose is, by their taking up space, and why they're there. And it's entirely about a reeducation around mass incarceration, and the social and racial injustice of it and one the things that they've done is they changed their hiring practices that they are very committed to hiring previously incarcerated people as tour guides and other roles within the museum.
And then another example I wanted to shout out is one of our Smithsonian peers, the Asian Pacific American Center. They have been a long, long time dedicated to social justice work. But recently, early May, at the beginning of Asian Pacific Heritage month, they put out a statement and they put out some resources around standing up against xenophobia, and specifically in Asian and Asian community Asian and Asian American communities but broadly standing up against xenophobia, and that is a, a reflection of their thinking of what their purpose is as an institution, why they exist, what they're supposed to be.
OnRae Watkins:
So I'm actually looking at these comments and I have a Jessica Sullivan that said issues of equity begin inside an organization. Let's talk about that. So real quick, I just want to say that I completely agree with that, Jessica Sullivan. I think it's really important for us to recognize that while we need to go ahead and push forward and implement action steps with regards to whom we serve, it is really important for us to implement action steps that are going to address internal issues, right? That is occurring inside of the institution, or in foundation or wherever it is that we work.
One big thing is for us to check ourselves and our implicit biases, I think, as Jon what you were getting into earlier. And I think one way of doing that is to be what would be called an active bystander. And so if you walk into a space and you see that there is only a certain person reflecting the space, speak up on it, say something about it. In our space, it's really important for us to have diverse images of individuals reflected in this space. If you walk into it as an education space specifically for those educators out there who have education spaces. If you only have a certain looking people reflected in the space in your classroom in your studio space, that to me if I don't see anyone that looks like me on the walls or reflected anywhere and even in the staff, this is not a space for me, I probably don't need to be here, right?
And so you want to make sure that you are inclusive and make sure that this is inviting, but also, also reflects representations of all people. Something that I've been really conscious about in our space Art Lab, just historically the space has always, before I even got there, for the last nine years that Art Lab has been in existence. The team has brown youth. And so I have made it a point to ensure that the staff reflect those who are in the space. But aside from that, going outside of race, it's really important for us to consider the fact that I or for me to have considered the fact that I'm introducing my young people to voices of trans people, non binary people, individuals who are disabled, right? To allow them to hear from a group of diverse voices that extend completely outside of race as well. So if anything, I think that that's something that could definitely be implemented all over it. And so I have to share regards to working inside right before we decide to take action to work on the outside.
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
I 100% agree, continue on this line before we pivot to something else, because I think there's much more we need to discuss and unpack. I was a little bit nervous about doing this panel to begin with, because I'm hesitant that the framework of museums as incubators for social impact suggests that museums are ready to be incubators of social impact. And, that's not a position that I hold. I have a long history of doing social justice work in museums but it is not the most natural fit. Because museums, our structures, our histories, our behaviors towards our staff have been, have been those of oppression. And we've created spaces that marginalize people of color, women, LGBTQ people, disabled people, as much as we see in the rest of society. And so museums are actually a pretty good mirror to society in that we are upholding those same in justices.
And so for museums to take an action, in this space, I would 100% say the first step is internal. You have to think about your purpose, you have to think about your values, you have to think about your mission, you have to think about how you have treated your staff, historically how you've treated your community. Tomorrow doesn't just start a new history line, all of the history still comes. And so I thought, I was also thinking there's a difference between doing and being when we think of what these checkboxes look like, "Oh, now we're doing social justice. That's the thing we've added to we're preserving this art. And we're doing these educational programs. And now we've added on to the list. We're doing social justice."
There's a difference between doing and being. And I think that the being part is where museums need to start. We have to start being anti racist, and nothing, no progress starts until we're there.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that. I think that's a great note to shift to the second theme of the day, it sounds like there's a lot of internal work that needs to be done in the, in the museum and cultural space first and foremost. What I, what I've gathered beyond that is the importance of listening is more of a listening stage before you take action, making sure they're connected with, with the communities that you say you're dedicated to, that you're making statements about. That's all really powerful and I'm happy to hear the different perspectives on all of this from the four of you so far.
So let's shift gears to the second theme or the second topic. OnRae, could you introduce that theme and some talking points off of that.
OnRae Watkins:
I would love to. Okay, so our theme is, for the second portion, how can you create an organization-wide approach and get internal buy-in for projects, programs and initiatives that everyone says are important, but will require major changes, carefully navigating internal politics and other potential hurdles?
Brendan Ciecko:
So part of this in our conversation preparing this think tank for today was really everyone says that they want to do a certain thing, everyone says that their institution wants to take a stance and engage in anti racist work and initiatives and support these communities. And that's one thing but then there's the actual doing and the action which we were touching on earlier.
And I think a lot of that comes down to how do you sell something or how do you pitch something or how do you get the internal support that you need which is a challenge where everyone knows exists in just about every space but certainly museums with their traditional hierarchy and structure?
So I thought it'd be really interesting to hear from to start with Jon on this and then I know Kayleigh and OnRae you're going to have a lot to say just the Smithsonian's is the Smithsonian. I know, I don't know if you get more structured than that in the cultural space. But Jon, just in your own experience, starting ICW I'd imagine that you had encountered major obstacles, opposition, naysaying early on. You needed to learn language, you needed to know how to shift language accordingly to get to your next milestone. So how do you get buy in and support to get to where you are today?
Jon Feinman:
I really appreciate this question. And, in my opinion, what's allowed us to grow over these first now 10 and a half years, it was knowing who the most important audience was to us, and that's the people in our program. So our narrative, the way we spoke, who we were ultimately going to be which was not a weight training program but a platform that amplifies, amplifies the voice. An agency to people where the criminal justice system has tried to rob that from them and allow and create a platform where they can take control of their own narrative.
I certainly wasn't talking like that at the beginning. I was just listening. But at the same time, I was being told by people in positions of politicians that some led protests against us claiming that they don't want a gang gym in their section of South Boston. People were saying that you're going to work with people who've been involved in street violence and get them stronger, how can that be a good idea? And to me, I had this incredible opportunity to meet people as people and again, I think we get into that lens of criminality and how that works, society's view versus the lens of humanity. When someone they're not a scary statistic, they're a person. It's Chris. It's Dan. It's Ty Sean's. It's TY.
And so for me, it was really important that I did right by them in anything I said and any narrative that we put out there, as I alluded to, it led to protests against us. It led to a lot of people questioning who we were and whether what we were doing was good or not. And, again, I get to say this is a privilege, and I can always fall back on something, but people we are working with this is their lives day in day out that I feel honored that they let me in and let me be a part of this fight with them and for them.
So I think it starts really with first thing who the audience that matters most to you is, amplifying their voice, and from there externally there are people that want to learn and they might not know yet. And we can actually position ourselves as an organization, as a platform for the people in our program to educate people, to have hard conversations that are going to make people uncomfortable, but that can allow them to grow to understand who people are as individuals.
So I guess to sum it up, internally now, I have very little tolerance for anyone. I'm going to speak in the way that the people in our program want me to speak and get their input internally. Anyone who doesn't like that we're happy to help you get a job somewhere else, this might not be the right organization for you. Externally, of course, we're trying to bring new people to the table. So that's where there is more nuance. and we've positioned ourselves or at least tried to as the people in our program, our thought leaders and experts, so come and listen to them. And by the way, we have this amazing service that you're going to get at the same time.
Brendan Ciecko:
Yeah. That's really interesting. I mean, one thing that I'm thinking from a parallel perspective, Jon is when I think of Boston's philanthropic environment, I think it's a very specific demographic of people that have very specific long standing feelings, and affinities, and systemic positions of things that they find and things that they don't, and things that seem risky and things that don't, things that are safe. So that getting someone who may be would come from a more traditional mindset and say, "Well, I'm going to fund the symphony hall or I'm going to fund the Boys and Girls Club versus funding you," in my mind is similar to look at the representation on boards in museums and cultural institutions, as well as corporations, and so on and so forth.
But you're talking about groups that have fallen into a specific demographic, demographic are predominantly white and predominantly male, that might look at some of these initiatives in working anti racism and other such things as outside of their comfort zone, uncomfortable to think about, uncomfortable to talk about. And so that's one thing that I'm curious from your perspective on.
And then I also want to hear from Kayleigh, where you've been doing some of this a lot of work for some time in the area of anti racist initiatives. And I want to hear what you would recommend to 99% of the museums and cultural organizations that haven't yet embarked on that journey that we know that there's internal work to be done, we know that there's listening to be done. But I think there's so much to be said about getting buy in to get things moving forward that I think would be helpful to a lot of people, even on this conversation today that maybe are already ready for that next phase of getting buy in from their board where this is going to be frankly, uncomfortable. There's going to be disagreement, there's going to be, yes, but what they actually mean is yes to pacify you, and then we're not going to do anything about it.
I honestly see some of that as the reality. So I think I'd love to hear from everyone about position and how you navigate those waters? Whether it be ICW, whether at Smithsonian, whether it be at any cultural institution around the country?
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
Well, actually, I wanted to respond to something that you said. You first and foremost who is our most important audience, and it's the people that are taking part in the gym themselves. And I want to sort of respond to this with a question. What would like for museums to take on that thinking about our own staff that step one in the direction of exploring social justice work is to consider our most important audience is our own staff.
And what I mean by that is, virtually because I can't see any of the audience, raise your hand, if you have heard a conversation about the pipeline in museums? I'm going to pretend like all thousand hands just went up, right? We've heard the conversation about the pipeline. We constantly talk about the pipeline. We're not getting enough people of color into museum work. How many of us have ever heard a conversation about retention? About keeping people of color at museums? I don't have any statistics in front of me, but anecdotally, we know that people of color come into museums and then leave and they leave the field permanently. The field is not designed to support people that look like me and OnRae, to keep us in, to elevate us, to promote us through, to bring us into leadership. It's not designed that way. It's actually designed to keep us out.
And what if we started our work by thinking that internally, our internal audience, our staff, that's who we need to focus on. We need to follow Jon's model and make sure that they are supported, that we have broken down the structures that oppress them within the work itself. I was really taken with that statement, Jon.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. and David, I mean, now that we're getting a little bit into the pipeline and the retention and getting people involved in specific fields. I mean, the goal behind Resilient Coders as I understand it seems very much oriented to creating opportunities for growth early on and expanding that pipeline for people of color in tech, and the pipeline is so incredibly important for the museum field and the cultural field in order to create this change, but also in order to be more equitable and have proper representation.
Well, let me throw this in before I asked the question, even in the preparation and figuring out who we wanted to lean on for some of these conversations. David, I saw that you were involved with City Awake in years past and I saw right on their website last night that people of color in Boston are three times more likely to quit a job in Boston after the first year as compared to their white peers. And I would imagine in the museum field that the pipeline and the retention component is probably on par, or let's just say like it's significantly different and requires actions. So how do you ensure diversity in professionals and people of color are joining and staying within a specific field? What have you found through your work with Resilient Coders and City Awake and these other organizations, what have you found to be successful in that regard?
David Delmar Sentíes:
Success is a big word. I've never worked for a museum. But everything that Kayleigh said really resonated with me because it's very familiar to me in the tech space. Tech was not built. It's completely misaligned with the sort of medieval pipeline that we have a huge problem at Resilient Coders with the retention at these companies. we're able to place folks into jobs as software engineers, and then they leave and then we have to have uncomfortable conversations with their employers about why. And there's a degree of licit racism that our graduates experience on the job, that the folks that we speak to afterwards are universally surprised by.
Look, I think we like to talk about who before what, right? It's important to us to address who is leading a particular initiative to change systems within an organization before you talk about what that is specifically. Otherwise, you end up with scenarios where you have these white men who are working in tech contriving solutions that have nothing to do with the actual substance of the problem they think they're trying to tackle, right? And this is, I don't know, one of the manifestations of the obstacles precluding people of color from joining a company and staying at that company.
OnRae made a point earlier about representation. I think, often people don't realize how much that matters to candidates who are applying to jobs. And people might not realize how much that matters when an individual considers staying at that job. Yeah, I don't know if that answers the question at all, but it's certainly a problem that we have in tech for sure.
OnRae Watkins:
Look, this chat room is lighting up. There's so many things to talk about, people asking about docent things and the representation like it is so many things, but there's a few things that I want to talk about and I want to do want to talk specifically about the docent just really quickly, more visitors services staff.
One thing I am certain that we can do, and this is for my museum people, is to just simply speak to those who are security staff, building maintenance staff, anyone that is supporting you in the building at your museum or even at your institution, wherever it is that you are. At the Smithsonian, what I have noticed is that a good deal of the people who are providing building services or security services are people of color, majority of them are people of color. And one of the things that we can work to do better at, right? Is to just simply treat them better.
I've heard just so many stories about how a security guard or visitor services person, a docent has come into, or is going to be on Zoom and they haven't been acknowledged by someone who may be a manager or a senior staff, right? And that's problematic, right? I mean, we should definitely be treating them with respect because they are the people that help our museums to operate, and to function at a high level every single day. First, I want to just address that because somebody has said that or has asked a question.
But the other thing I want to say is that I want to offer people money is so important. It sounds so simplistic, but I got a sticky bid. The reason why I was able to come into the Hirshhorn Museum and transform the Hirshhorn Museum into a black hair salon is not because I pitched the idea. It didn't have nothing to do with me walking into anybody's office and saying, "I want to do this. Here's my idea." Nobody cares. You have to have money behind you. And so what I decided to do was okay, well wait a second. I have very radical, very explosive and non traditional unique ideas I'm sure several of you have as well. How can I make sure that this happens? How can I get the best backing and best support to make it happen?
It's not just walking into somebody's office, writing a proposal and getting them to listen, that will take you two, three, five, seven, 10 years, it probably will never happen. You have to fundraise and you have to also know that you have the ability to fundraise. You have luxury to fundraise. Go out in networks. Anytime that your museum or any creative arts, culture, space is hosting opportunities for you to meet other people take your behind there. Go there, talk to people about your programs. Talk to people about the work that you're doing. People want to hear about it. They want to hear from you, because they're not going to know unless you show up. I try to go to every single thing I can, talk to whomever I can, and keep it real with people. Don't talk to me unless you're bringing money to the table. Just honest, honestly.
The reason I've been able to completely transform our space and to do these crazy program ideas and implement them and execute them at a high level is because of money. When I apply for a grant, I can get 60 G's to do a program dedicated to black hair and black hair salons, right? When I go to my supervisor, it's I got 60 G's behind me, I have the American Women's History Initiative behind me and it's like, "All right, well, let's make it happen." Whereas if I went in with, it's definitely a lot harder and honestly, it's probably not going to happen. And so I say know that you have the ability, you have the luxury and the autonomy to fundraise and just do your best at it, bring that money to the table, and that's going to push your ideas for it as simply as I can put it.
Brendan Ciecko:
I love that. Thank you for that. I think that's a fascinating way of maybe simplifying it a bit but honestly giving people the kind of the tip or recommendation or advice if you want to get something done, this is one way of going about it. I think that's fascinating. I loved even in your bio that you had a shout out to how much you have raised to get certain programming done. Because if it's as simple, if you come to the table with those funds, you get it done, and if you don't have those funds, then you're wasting time or it's an uphill battle. That's, that's really interesting to think about. And between you and I looked to Jon and maybe David as well. Jon, and I may be making numbers up, but it was the John Hancock Foundation, it was a half a million dollars, right? Something like that?
David Delmar Sentíes:
In total over the last five years.
Brendan Ciecko:
And David, you also have funders and you have funders from like, early stage, this is a big risk, we're going to give you a small check of five grand or 10 grand, half a million dollars. How do you effectively get that early buy in? And one thing that I've always heard? And all four of you can tell me if this is right or wrong is if you ask for money, you get advice. If you ask for advice, you get money. Is that ring true when it comes to programs like this?
David Delmar Sentíes:
Absolutely. I don't think things have changed a little bit now that we're 10 plus years in but I would say 90% of our revenue comes through relationships we've formed that ultimately over time become an avenue toward, towards funding. So Jon Hancock, we mean, we had known them for two and a half years before they ever gave us any money. and so it really just comes down every level internal, external it's the relationships you have. And I think in light of COVID-19 and a lot of companies, going through some tough economic times, it's never been more important to have that strong networking support around you, because that's ultimately what's going to define your longevity and ability to weather the storms.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. And David, do you have anything to add to that around getting some of that early financial support, which then gives the work that you do? And I hate to say it like, and the world that we live in. If you have money behind you, it gives you legitimacy or credibility around the idea in the first place when you sell it up the ladder.
And so who were some of the, what did some of those early conversations look like on your end of getting the initial funding. and also, I'm super curious about OnRae with your work in this world. What were those first conversations? Were those grants, or were those kind of micro and micro donations that led to something larger?
Jon Feinman:
So I got a piece of really good advice early on. And actually, I think it might have been from you, Jon. Like, I got a really good piece of advice that said that you got to be really careful who you accept that money from, and what comes with it. And so early on, I was very intentional about telling people that this was an idea. And that attracted a certain profile of individual. I was, and I am the way that I communicated this opportunity to the folks that I spoke to, but what I said was, we're going to go through a series of increasingly better failures. And so if you're going to fund this idea, you have to be comfortable with the fact that it's going to fail to some degree.
And so the profile of the organization that funded this at the very beginning were explicitly folks who are comfortable with that idea and honestly we turned away folks who were going to be very strict about metrics up front, because I didn't feel confident we could hit them.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. And OnRae, can you talk a little bit about your funding journey for some of your initiatives?
OnRae Watkins:
Yeah, so David, I completely, I am totally with you definitely have to be careful who you accept money from. Because some people want you to execute their idea fully and completely along with their terms. And it's like, "What, you do not run things here. We run this. What you will be doing is applying what I have offered into our space because we know what's best," right?
And so I think it's being able to obviously have negotiating skills. But if you have somebody like for instance, I won't be specific, too specific about it, but I had someone come to me who had a music application that they wanted to implement in our space, obviously for selfish reasons. And it's like, "Okay, well, I got you, I got you on that." Let's consider implementing this in our space, if, number one, you're paying my kids, right, I'm able to bring in the staff that I want, which is extremely important. But also I'm able to use this as an art exhibition idea, right?
And so I'm like putting all the things that I want on the table taking what they've given me. But saying all right, well, let me all of the things that I want to accomplish. Considering my needs, if you were, if you were able to fund these things, most def, let's go ahead and make this happen. Let's make this a mutual partnership. I get a lot out of it. You obviously get something out of it.
You want to know what happened? I didn't get the money. Why? Because what they wanted, what I wanted wasn't what they wanted to offer, and it's okay. Sometimes they say no, but what's best is for you to understand that you have control over what happens at your institution, it's your foundation, it's in your space. You don't have to take anything and just say okay, let me accomplish this one time prize just to get some money in. No, it needs to fit your pedagogy. It needs to fit your guidelines, your values, whatever that might be. And sometimes you might have to say no, it's better to say no than to get yourself into a situation, which has happened to me, because I was pressed for some money. And then you're sitting there like, "Why in the world that I do this? This is not of major benefit to me. It's not a major benefit to my team. It's more of a benefit to that person."
you live and you learn, but yes, absolutely be careful with that. But also know that you have the power. You have the power, you have the control, and you can put what you need at the forefront. And if they take it, hey, cool, if they don't, then hey, what's up, we got somebody else that's going to come along, they will be willing to give money up too.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. I wish we could keep talking and talking. We have five minutes to go and I just want to give a little bit of closing remarks before giving the floor back to the four of you to make some closing statements. But I just want to say after, after all of this we're going to compile everyone's questions, ideas and solutions, into one living and breathing document to share with the museum and cultural community. Feel free to share your thoughts here in the webinar chat or email them over to hello@cuseum.com or over Twitter. The fact that you're here shows that you're taking proactive steps in preparing your museum and cultural institution.
I know that there's a lot of different ways that these things could go. There's more questions than there are answers, but the fact that you're here shows that your ears are open, you want to listen, you want to figure out the next steps that your organization can take as you move forward. So I've been really energized and inspired by all of the words that I've heard so far from Kayleigh, and OnRae, and Jon, and David and I look forward to tying a nice bow on the hour with some closing words. What's one idea that we can bring back to our organizations during this time? so Kayleigh, I'd love to hear from you? What's that one piece of advice or mindset that you would encourage people to bring back?
Kayleigh Bryant-Greenwall:
Sure. I'm actually going to continue on what OnRae was just talking about power. I think that one key takeaway from museums is really to reflect on power. And the power that you have, and the power that you put out into the world. And by that, I mean, if you are suddenly interested in working with an underserved community, you have to be really cognizant about your power relationship with that community. Thinking about funding and the power that money holds in museums. Helen Molesworth said this, I think it's what got her fired, she's re-thinking our exhibiting practice means that some years that old white guy isn't getting a shot. You have the power within your museum to make those choices.
If you have a limited budget and you've been connected, you've been dedicated to showing one thing this is like for the art museums out there but for everybody, you've been so committed to spending your existing budget this way, now's an opportunity to rethink how you're spending that money. what are the pitfalls of saying no to one thing to elevate an anti racist choice for one. You have the power to control your own, but literally nobody else does.
So my one takeaway is to really sit reflectively on power. And we have more power than we need in certain relationships that we continue to be the presser of, on.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that. And next up, I want to hear from David. and David to put you on the spot and to step it up in that the audience that you're speaking to is probably predominantly art museums. I read in an interview that you had a couple years ago that you said, "I think art and activism are two arms spreading from the same chest." So I thought that was an incredible thing to bring into the equation and because you are speaking to a lot of folks in the art field, and know what you're bringing to the table better, but what's one idea you would encourage people to bring back to their organizations during this time?
David Delmar Sentíes:
So that art and activism thing, a lot of it has to do with the fact that all of my family's in Mexico City, and you can't walk down the street in Mexico City without seeing some of the greatest murals that have ever been painted. And all of them are about the recalibration of power.
And so I want to jump right on top of what Kayleigh has said and just agree a thousand fold. If your initiative does not actively focus on the recalibration of power, you cannot call it equity. In tech, we like to do a thin veneer of diversity, and then say that we're good, we're all set. But people are not actively recalibrating power. And if that's the case, then you may just as well go home, right? And so one thing that I would add to that is objectives and metrics, right? If the initiative does not have specific metrics and a strategy by which to achieve them, either you're not a business, right, or you don't care. And so when leadership says, "Yeah, we care about this, we care about like, whether it's diversity, equity, whatever it is, we care about this and the other cool, what are your objectives and metrics?" And they say, "I don't know." I would be very worried because it's one or the other, they don't care or they don't know how to achieve metrics.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that, David. And Jon, how about you? What's one big idea or takeaway that you would encourage people to bring back to their organizations right now?
Jon Feinman:
Yeah, building off of what has already been said and working with people and companies in the DEI space and don't just pay lip service. If you've got, you've got amazing leaders, amazing people out there, support them, empower them both to make decisions and empower them financially because they'll bring you where you need to go but as David they got to recalibrate that power and feed off what Kayleigh said as well.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you. Thank you. and OnRae, I'd love to hear what your advice to folks at home would be during this time. What's something that you encourage people, you energize people to bring back to their museums, their cultural institutions and their lives during this time?
OnRae Watkins:
First follow us at Art Lab plus on Instagram, don't play with me, Art Lab Plus on Instagram, you can follow me @onraelateal as well. No, but on a serious note, I would say that. Thanks. Don't be afraid to execute your big ideas, even like let's say that you don't have the funding behind it, right? I talked a lot about that. Don't be afraid to execute your ideas, is something that is I think a sentiment that's held across for most museum spaces, if not spaces period around the nation, around the world is that sometimes senior staff are a little afraid to allow their folk to not only think big but to execute big.
And so if you have the luxury to be able to execute an idea, please do it. Don't be afraid to do it. And don't be afraid to fail. If you fail, it's all good. It is all good. Just get up and try it again. Play if, if I was afraid to execute some of the crazy ideas that I had, I would never do, I would never have accomplished anything. And so I just, I don't know, want to affirm everybody, and let them know that your ideas have come to you because they're special, they're unique. And just know that you have the, have the freedom to do it. And even if you have to scale it back, if your boss says, "Oh, I don't know about that," scale it back a little bit and do it and then know the next time you can do it even bigger, but don't be afraid to fail. It'd be better to do it and to fail than to not do it at all.
Brendan Ciecko:
Thank you for that. I mean, I'm so inspired by all of the dialogue that we've jumped into in the past hour. I think that this could have gone on for days. But you all have done an incredible job of, of zooming in on a couple of key points that people can really take and learn from and also expand their minds because I mean, for me, this has been a really excellent moment of listening and hearing from people who are actually doing the work and actually having the conversations and trying to amplify some of these topics and voices.
So I've really enjoyed this conversation with all four of you. I hope that some new ideas have been sparked, I hope that inspiration has been shared with those who have tuned in and with those that will download and listen to this and look for themselves in these ideas and look for what their organizations could be or should be. So I really am grateful that we have this opportunity to connect over this past, past hour. I'm energized, I'm inspired, and I think because of conversations like this, where we bring different voices and perspectives together from worlds that are completely unlike each other, but also share similarity and it's recalibration and doing what's right in the world. I think we'll have a better cultural sector and I think we'll have a better world because of it. So I really, I thank you Kayleigh, I thank you, OnRae, thank you, Jon and thank you, David for sharing your wisdom with us for this past hour.
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